Legends of Aria - Closed Beta

[Regolyth]

The closed beta I for Legends of Aria set to begin today. I think Gack backed it (I did as well). It started our pretty ambitious, but they scaled it back quite a bit. It still looks like a good game. Check it out.

LoA Closed Beta

New Places to Explore:

• New World Area – Eastern Frontier: The low fields and calm beaches of the Eastern Frontier lies in the North East of Celador. Home to the mining city of Helm and the plains of Denir, the Eastern Frontier is a prosperous new land to call home.
• Two new major cities – Helm lies on the Lume Coast at the foot of the Iron Peak mountains and a refuge for miners and crafters. Pyros Landing is located on the tip of the Southern Rim and a bustling centre for business and trade.
• Additional World Dungeon – Contempt: Much like it’s sister dungeons Ruin and Deception, Contempt is filled will all sorts of nasty undead creatures. It is currently the only undead dungeon with a boss, the Demon Lord.
  Catacombs Dungeon: We are excited to reopen our biggest and most dangerous dungeon, The Catacombs. This dungeon is a triggered server wide event tailored towards large groups and the final boss, Death, will require more than just numbers to defeat.

Major Systems Overhauled:

• The Karma & Conflict System (formerly known as the criminal/flagging system) ensures that all player actions, be they positive or negative, are recognised in each players own Karma score. This system replaces all arbitrary criminal flags and ensures that risk vs reward is maintained in all aspects of play.
• User Interface: Our goal with these changes was to keep you fully immersed in the game world by limiting the distraction of artificial UI elements.
• Collision and Movement Improvements: One of the biggest issues from Final Alpha. Movement is now much smoother and more enjoyable.

Balance Changes

• Balance patches across combat and magic skills.
• Mounted Combat: The hit and run tactics of Final Alpha have been severely limited with changes to using and accessing mounts.
• Guard Zones: The guard zones have been adjusted to encourage players to venture outside the safety of guards while still providing a very large safe space for those who want to play without the worry of being PKed.
• Teleport Tower Changes: Teleport towers have been moved closer to the cities and the gatekeepers now protect players from attackers.
• Fast Travel: You can purchase teleportation runes from the gatekeepers which allow mages to teleport and open portals to the towers from anywhere in the world.
• And of course, 100’s of bug fixes for issues that were reported during Final Alpha!

[Morreion]

Good deal, Rego! I'm a backer at the Ruby Level ($50). Right now I'm waiting for Project Gorgon to hit Steam (supposed to happen anytime now).

[EchoVamper]

You know, I never played UO. I've heard you all talk about it for years. Not only that, but almost everyone I've ever heard mention it loved the game. I hit a couple of youtube trailers and they stoked my interest in Legends of Aria.

For some reason the concept captures my imagination, as does the idea that it is based also on Eve Online. The idea of full loot? I wonder if that is actually what is missing in recent MMORPGs. Same with robust crafting.

I could imagine a group of players (who ever that might be, lol) banding together, building a house, forges, crafting stations, and then maybe even a small village. The "guild/clan" would outfit its characters in high level renewable crafted gear, adventure together, help other players, enforce their own concept of justice...and have a blast. In other words this group would systematically approach the game in a patient, but passionate way. I wonder if such a game would perhaps be a little more free of the quick fix, min-max, instant gratification crowd that pushes the industry away from traditional MMORPG models. I have no idea if any or all of those things are a possibility for this game, but if that is a doable it would be tempting to resurrect a bunch of us old timers and give it a go.

What say any of you? Is that just nostalgia or a kind of romantic pie in the sky, or does someone else here have a bit of that fever?

[Morreion]

In theory, it's a great idea

The trouble begins when theory meets reality.

UO has many old players looking back at it with nostalgia, to the good old days when things mattered. But at the time, UO had a raging debate about free-for-all PvP. Player-killers abounded. People fled in droves. UO lost player population, hence the move to splitting the UO world into 2- one where PvP was consensual (the world most people played in named Trammel), and a wild free-for-all PvP world (the world that few people played in named Felucca). The rewards were greater when you played in Felucca, but not many went there. Not surprisingly, hardcore players scorned this move, while people who didn't want to be repeated cannon fodder for them approved.

That's what happened.

Now, I like a world where things matter and there are consequences. Player-killers (PKs) actually created anti-PKs, sort of white knights who would hunt down PKs. That dynamic world you mentioned where communities banded together for each other happened.

But many a player found themselves in this kind of situation-

Say you are a miner who has aspirations to become a blacksmith. You store many tons of precious ore in your bank so that you can skill up and be the best armor-maker in the land.

Then a PK comes along and decides to ruin your day.

He kills you repeatedly. Camps your corpse. takes your hard-won ore and sells it. He has a lot of fun at your expense.

Your buddies aren't always around to help you kill him. He's flagged red, which means anyone can kill him consequence-free. Great!

But.

Our PK logs out, then logs into another character and continues to PK our miner.

The miner finally logs out in frustration. Quite a few such as he quit. The world runs short of willing victims.

This is the catch. These 'free for all PvP games with consequences' always have ways around the consequences. This issue hasn't been solved yet. Sure, you can put the PKer into jail, but how do you keep him from logging into another character? Another account?

Never underestimate the innovation and desire to grief others by a certain type of player.

I agree that the idea of a community to watch out for each other is a positive. But unlike in real life, that community isn't around all the time. The majority of players don't think that their fun should be held hostage by griefers at their expense.

There are arguments on both sides of this issue, but when I see a game with 'free for all PvP with consequences', that's a red flag for me. Because Ihaven't seen a game where the consequences worked yet.

Another example. Salem.

This was a FFA PvP game that ended up with a large group of naked griefers who would kill you unless you joined them. They were naked because they wouldn't lose weapons or armor when they died in combat (one of those consequences). They had nothing to lose, but controlled everyone else.

So in my mind, you have to have a tough hide to be in a FFA PvP community. Think about Mordred back in DAoC. It started out with a lot of players- Andred, a 2nd server, was even created. After a while Andred shut down and Mordred didn't have a lot of players. The majority of people don't think of such situations as fun. Oftentimes in such a situation, one or maybe two large guilds will rule such a server, making new players submit to them or die.

I'm not saying that there aren't people who enjoy these types of games. But there aren't a lot of them. Iplayed on a FFA PvP server on Age Of Conan and I made it to level 20-something. There were moments of intensely satisfying 'justice' when I killed a guy who was repeatedly griefing me in an ambush. But a lot of the time it was scrambling to get anything done with such threats hanging over one's head. Some would see that as negative energy lol. Here's a post about that experience:

farjourneys.proboards.com/thread/1177/age-conan-ffa-incident-2008

Anyway, I'd be willing to try such a game with a group or guild to see how it goes. But be forewarned!

[EchoVamper]

Points all well taken. I didn't live through that world as many of you did; but I do think I understand what you are saying. Felucca is not a world I would particularly want to live in either. Recalling Star Wars Galaxies, one character per server might help a little. It wouldn't get rid of the griefer (or solve the problem entirely), but it would somewhat attenuate him/her in YOUR world. Reputation might become a little more meaningful.

Another thought is, for lack of a better term, "player controlled NPCs" (in areas that your faction has established control or dominance). I also wonder if "effectiveness penalties" based on PK behavior could be instituted. A legitimate bid for control of real estate or resources would be tolerated, but griefing and player killing would result in stiff penalties to your character's actual effectiveness, and ultimately render the character unable to continue such behavior. There could also be player effectiveness bonuses for establishing and maintaining control of ones "homestead" (e.g. DAoC relics).

Did I read somewhere that it would be possible to create many "worlds" and that these would be what the players made them? A group of players who could find the best "middle ground" ruleset might well have a great environment for gaming. I guess one has to understand that such a ruleset might be shunned by aggressive players, which to an extent would be a detriment.

Reddit forums often claim this game only be attractive to older players and will not capture enough population to be viable; yet I also read that there are large German and Russian player communities that are chomping at the bit to get into this game.

This is all fun to discuss, but tough to solve. I think DAoC had it surprisingly close at its beginning. Safe places, yet meaningful contested areas, penalties and rewards, realm timers, no bots, diverse classes... It became more exploitable as it yielded to the next generation of preferences so it is no longer what it was ... but it's still a surprisingly playable game.

[Morreion]

I've often thought DAoC 2 would be an excellent game. I'm very disappointed that Camelot Unchained is PvP-only.

[Jaema]

If my non-uber character is primarily existing to make the game fun for PvP'rs then its not the game for me. I don't have a lot of experience but probably the least objectionable situation to me would be in realm war type setting --- then if you're also vulnerable to other players during that battle, I can see some kind of sense in that specific mechanic.

[Morreion]

One thing for sure- we ought to form a guild in a game coming out soon-ish! I miss playing with all of you!

[EchoVamper]

Agree with Jaema.

I'm in for a try. I've even got a small ventrilo server (10 participants max) we could use if people want to (there are pros and cons IMO).

[Regolyth]

Gack's explanation of old UO is quite accurate. Although they did start putting limits on PvP kills. Every time you killed someone, you stayed red for a certain amount of time; you had to stay logged in for X amount of hours to turn back to blue (non-criminal). You became perma-red if you didn't let the time tick off, which meant you could never step foot inside a town - guards killed reds on site.

But the awesome thing about UO was that the best stuff was crafted. If I lost stuff to a PK, I could log in with my crafter and make new gear. Sure it used some resources, but it wasn't that big of a deal. It wasn't like DAoC/WoW, where you farmed or raided for hours and hours to get the best gear. For just a few gold you could have a a smith make you something great. It was good design from the beginning. You could also die and have your corpse looted by a monster (and it was fun tracking that monster down and getting your stuff back - or finding stuff a monster looted from someone else). And eventually, the durability of an item, no matter how great the item was, would degrade to the point where it would shatter and you'd need a new sword or piece of armor anyways. A great PvP tactic was to use a GM crafted hammer to smash your opponents armor to pieces in a few hits, then you could kill them in just a few sword swipes. But like I said before, losing weaponry and armor wasn't such a big deal. In my house in UO, I had a chest next to a forge with tons of GM armor and weapons I crafted in it that my friends had access to. When they lost something, they could go get a new one. They repaid me in the spoils of war from stuff they looted (or found). It was a great give and take.

I was pretty big into smithing and known for it. I mined my own ore, and in Felucca you got double the resources than in Trammel. I mined my ore in Fel and did my dungeon raiding in Tram. They also, eventually, introduced monster spawns to the game. They were special events that dropped scrolls that allowed you to take your skills above 100 (which was the max). This was an effort to get more people back in Fel. At these monster spawns, people usually banded together to kill any reds that came in to disrupt things.

Now don't get me wrong, dying sucked. But it was more of an annoyance than something detrimental. Within an hour you could usually be back where you started, worse case scenario. Best case, immediately.

There was also stealing. Stealing was so fun. I have some great memories with my thief. With stealing, you had to be crafty. My biggest score was a 10k check. Man, I was physically shaking when I snooped someone's pack and found it, then successfully stole it. I was so nervous as I tried to escape with my loot without getting killed and it stolen back.

They also added something later in the game called Factions. This basically meant you were part of a worldwide NPC guild (on top of whatever player guild you were in) and would be at war other guilds. If you were at war with another guild, you could kill members of that guild, on site, at any time. However if you didn't want to participate in this, you didn't have to join the NPC guilds. It was a way to introduce all the time PvPing to the non-PvP world of Trammel.

Today's UO is a far cry from what it used to be. The messed stuff up if you asked me. If I were to play again, I'd have to get on a player-ran server around the expansion of Second Age.

Feb 8, 2018 10:58:46 GMT -5 Morreion said:

I've often thought DAoC 2 would be an excellent game. I'm very disappointed that Camelot Unchained is PvP-only.

True, it's PvP only, but you also don't have to level up in the traditional sense. You can pretty much start the game and go out battling, and be effective. You unlock skills through battling, much like RvR skills in DAoC. You also get points to buy armor with. I think it's a great concept, because it's very focused in what it's trying to achieve. You don't have to balance PvE with PvP. You don't have to worry about gold or levels. You just go out and compete, almost on a FPS-type of level.

If you don't want to PvP, you can craft. Crafting is needed as much as fighters. Crafters craft the armor (much better than stuff purchased) and the siege weapons. They also craft/build the towers and castles. You don't craft and fight, you choose one or the other. You specialize.


P.S. I apologize if this post is incomprehensible. I had a lot of rapid thoughts and emotions on the subject. I tried to proof read it. LOL