Keen: What DAoC Means to Me

[Morreion]

What Dark Age of Camelot Means To Me (Keen and Graev's Gaming Blog)

DAOC was the first game to show me what real PvP against another dynamic and living player could be like when it involved more than just fighting that actual player. I had done PvP in EverQuest but it was more about the individual fight itself. In DAOC it was about more. It was about defending your realm against a threat you knew was growing somewhere you couldn’t see. It created a sense of “Realm Pride” in me and others when we had to fight to maintain control of our lands against the enemies. Losing our Keeps and especially our Relics was something we could not let happen. Don’t ask me to try and explain what specific mechanics lead to this feeling. I don’t know. I don’t know how Mythic was able to accomplish creating this Realm Pride and if you ask them they don’t even know — they’re probably desperate to know right now, actually. I think it’s more of a perfect combination of many things that are unique to DAOC. The game would have to be remade to replicate it.

...Like a sea of red in the distance we saw the shining armor of the Albion army pouring over the hills, coming through the trees, literally surrounding us. Our flanking groups had been flanked and they fell back into the keep. Our archers and casters began their barrage. One after another arrow and spell were fired. Our archers began to fall and we were horrified to see that Albion stealth class infiltrators had climbed the walls and stuck their poisonous knives into them. As quickly as they stealthed in they stealthed out and we now knew the enemy was not only breaking down our door but among us on the inside taking us out one by one.

Maybe two hours had passed and I was losing hope fast. Then the weirdest thing happened. The infiltrators stopped attacking us in the keep. The Albion ranged assault stopped. I peaked over the wall and to my horror I saw that another massive army had gathered on the hill in the distance. Reinforcements for the Albs? How many of these cockroaches could their be?! No, not reinforcements for them. For us?! Could it be the night crew was getting on? No… oh no.. Their face paint vivid and their unmistakable lopsided lumpy heads meant only one thing: Hibernia! Dem Hibbies thinking they were mighty rushed the Albion army. This was it! Our chance to strike! “FOR ODIN! CHARGE!” “CHARGE!” We jumped off our walls, poured out the keep door, and engaged in a three way glorious battle that resulted in several more hours of back and forth fighting over several keeps.

Keen is right- realm pride was a big factor in DAoC's success. Most people were involved with their fellow realmmates, fighting the enemy. There was true community there. The PvE and PvP co-existed side by side. The 3-way army vs. army PvP there has not been matched since.

[EchoVamper]

Speaking of DAoC: I can't remember if you've already posted this Morreion, but Matt Firor (of DAoC fame) has a new project that sounds interesting. Little is known about the title itself, but they believe it will be a "AAA quality MMOG that will challenge the industry leaders". He says that they are funded until launch.

www.zenimaxonline.com/index.html

[Regolyth]

Very interesting Echo. I think I'll look further into that one.

As for DAoC, I too think that realm pride was big factor in it's success. And to be honest, it's a unique factor that I've only seen in DAoC. I think they tried to reproduce that in Warhammer, but failed due to a few reasons, but mainly because of the two faction system over the three. I don't understand why everyone is trying to change systems that work. The skill system in UO, the three factions of DAoC... these are what made these games last as long as they did, and so memorable.

[Rakul]

Feb 10, 2010 14:55:32 GMT -5 Regolyth said:

Very interesting Echo. I think I'll look further into that one.

As for DAoC, I too think that realm pride was big factor in it's success. And to be honest, it's a unique factor that I've only seen in DAoC. I think they tried to reproduce that in Warhammer, but failed due to a few reasons, but mainly because of the two faction system over the three. I don't understand why everyone is trying to change systems that work. The skill system in UO, the three factions of DAoC... these are what made these games last as long as they did, and so memorable.

I agree, and also don't understand why they find that so hard to grasp. One day someone, somewhere, with money, will put it together. Of course, I keep saying that... ;D

[Morreion]

I think WoW is the 800-pound gorilla in the room now. In my opinion, WAR was influenced more by WoW than DAoC when "DAoC 2" would have been more successful for them.

Please devs, quit trying to make the next WoW. Make UO2 or DAoC2!

[dotty]

I found reading the comments almost as good as the article. You know it was a great game when people can still speak passionately about the time they spent there.

I also found this person's comments very interesting regarding DAoC vs WAR:

Here’s my take on DAOC’s ingredients for realm pride:

- Three realms, each with their own unique appearance, history, strengths, and weaknesses.
- RvR was not directly tied to gear so people were less selfish
- Renown ranks actually mattered (RRs were hard to come by and granted important abilities)
- Keeps were tied to realm-wide rewards not individual rewards (access to Darkness Falls for your realm, relic bonuses for your realm, etc.)
- You could not feasibly solo from 1-50 unless you wanted a very nasty grind so grouping was encouraged in PvE
- RvR was also very difficult solo, requiring communication and coordination
- Keep siege was complex with towers, doors, ladders, destructible walls, etc. so players were more apt to work together instead of simply clusterfrakking a single point of entry

Now look at all those points and compare them to Warhammer Online. Do you see (m)any similarities? I don’t.

[Morreion]

You're right about the comments Dotty, there are some very insightful ones.

Personally, I think WAR got caught up in what they thought people liked in WoW as opposed to taking DAoC's original concept and updating it to produce DAoC 2, which I'm convinced would have done better.

Also, it seemed they focused a lot on what the 'new MMO player' wanted, which led to a game that was too light an experience. Many new releases are light fare, which doesn't seem to hold the attention very long.

[Loendal]

I remember going out into the Frontier at level 25 because it was the next place to hunt. There were good monsters out there to get XP from. I don't remember way back when if there was an XP bonus for fighting out there or not. I think it was just the camp bonus that made them worth alot more due to the fact that not many people hunted out there.

Heck, I still remember my first RvR death... Me and my (now ex) wife got attacked by an Elf Nightshade just a little ways outside the gate of the border keep in Midgaard (Who's name I currently forget.. Vindsul? It was the one on the east side, not the center / west

Anyway... Yes, realm pride was a big deal. And not even from a Roleplay perspective alone (Though that helped). You were EXPECTED to show up to defend keeps if you were a decent level. Decent meant 25 or more back when.... You didn't wait until 50 to go outside like the whelps of later years did. I can distinctly recall seeing yellows and oranges when I was in my mid to high 20's.

[EchoVamper]

I remember taking my Bard out to the frontiers solo at about level 28-30 or so. I just HAD to see what everyone was talking about. It took me about three tries (a considerable amount of time back then) to make it as far as the mile gate for a look-see. When I got there I had occasion to heal a few characters who were in a pitched battle, and ended up being grouped and staying about 2-3 hours. There was a Druid and a Warden in that group; really great people. They kept me on my feet when I went down and began to teach me what to do out there. People were so nice that way in the early times.

[Regolyth]

Feb 11, 2010 12:35:58 GMT -5 EchoVamper said:

People were so nice that way in the early times.

Very true. Much different than MMOs of today.

Since others are reminiscing, I might as well too. I knew that you couldn't visit the frontiers until you were 15, so that's when I took my first adventure out there. I remember leaving the Spraggon Den as soon as I dinged 15 and hurried out to the gates of DL. I think I made it out of the sight of the guards before some stealthed archer shot me down. I remember thinking it was awesome he could do that (since I was a ranger myself), and ran right back out there and this time made it to the first keep.

It wasn't until I had almost leveled too out that I found Thidrinki. I spent as much time there and in Caledonia as possible. I used to lead groups of people around in Caledonia when I was there. Odd thing for a ranger to do. Of course, archers were good in the battlegrounds. It wasn't until I got to 50 and headed out to the Frontiers again that I realized how badly they had been nerfed.