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Post by Morreion on Sept 8, 2009 7:43:42 GMT -5
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Post by Oatik on Sept 8, 2009 9:44:32 GMT -5
These days MMOs have become largely populated with cardboard heroes armed with slide rulers and calculators. We no longer represent elves, dwarves and humans; instead we have become DPS, armor class and chance to crit.
I might name myself "Chance ToCrit" in my next game.
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Post by Morreion on Sept 8, 2009 20:46:46 GMT -5
Don't make me grief you Oat! ;D
The article mentioned mechanics to support RP. That sounds optimistic. The only example I could think of was the Cantinas in SWG- you had to go there and slowly heal battle fatigue after fighting a lot by watching a dancer or listening to a musician (who were players that got exp bonuses from being watched or listened to). This led to lots of people being together, and RPing frequently happened. It could be elaborate RP, or simple insults and "I challenge you to a duel". Cantinas were awesome.
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Post by Loendal on Sept 17, 2009 10:27:27 GMT -5
Hello again Morreion  Not sure if you remember me or not, but you knew me as Popo  I stumbled on your web site and saw this article and thought I might stick my head into the conversation a little bit. Roleplaying has died because everything is spoon-fed to people now. The visuals, the functionality and the environment are all so vanilla and predictable it leaves nothing to the imagination. Unfortunately, I don't know what can be done about it other then to force people to do something in-character to progress, as the article stated. Unfortunately, both you and I know that in-character is vastly different from person to person. To some being in character is speaking with a few extra thee's and thou's thrown in for good measure. Others (myself included) prefer to create a character that is born into the environment and reacts to it based on their own individual knowledge of that environment. Hell, Popo was scared of horses for most of his life and I acted that bit out when I had the opportunity. Still others create lavish and detailed backstories and create entire plot lines of pure role play. The hard part is defining what's good In-Character and what's not, and that will fall again on the altar of developers to decide and we've already seen where they go. People don't want to take the journey anymore, they want to arrive. |
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Post by Morreion on Sept 17, 2009 10:53:45 GMT -5
Welcome, Popo! Great to see you here! I'll put up a story board for you if you ever feel like posting anything there! People don't want to take the journey anymore, they want to arrive.I agree 100%. I think this separates many of the original MMO / MUD players from today's more mainstream playerbase (as in players used to console, RPGs and FPS games). That's what made UO and DAoC so refreshing- there was a server-wide community then, a critical mass of people who knew behavior mattered. Even non-RPers in DAoC would respect RP most of the time (up until 2004 anyway, I left after that). Everything is casual, solo or get-to-endgame oriented. It's not a coincidence that games like these lose the majority of their players in the first few months. There's really nothing to keep one there. |
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Post by Loendal on Sept 17, 2009 11:26:46 GMT -5
The only problem is that you must have someone live there to judge what's good and what's not. You can't automate a roleplay experience, it has to blossom in a give and take between people. It's the interaction that makes it happen.
In a system I'm working on, I've tried to think ahead and focus the game on Roleplayers, making those who actually take an active role in the game to be able to shape it. Now I know this is pretty much every wanna-be dev's position, but I don't think it's THAT hard to do. The main problem is that there are more powergamers then roleplayers out there. This is why they had to cluster the servers on DAOC (And they are working on yet another clustering, this time taking ALL servers and making them into one... When I checked this morning, there were a gamewide total of 475 people in there. DAOC may be on it's way out)
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Post by Morreion on Sept 17, 2009 11:57:16 GMT -5
Aye, sad to see DAoC declining- I sometimes regret leaving there in 2004...
I think that the future of RP (in the sense of having a real community) will be in niche games. I've always thought I'd jump at the chance to pay more for a premium RP server where there was name enforcement and where people who deliberately flouted the ruleset or antagonized RPers would be blocked from that server.
But perhaps a niche game that was RP-oriented would be worthwhile. If A Tale in the Desert can succeed as a niche game...
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Post by EchoVamper on Sept 17, 2009 14:59:25 GMT -5
Thought I'd drop by and say hi and welcome to Popo (perhaps you remember Kalyce, a Bard from Clan O'Suilebhain)! It's great to have a new member.
It's not that roleplaying communities lack tangible positives. They can produce a richer world for the participant; one that is more imaginative, creative, literate, and often therapeutic. Shared vulnerability, unpredictability, and the need for interdependence also help to foster roleplaying. The modern mainstream games and gamers have unfortunately evolved into entities that don't value those things highly. The min/max/solo generation has formed communities centered around other values.
This thread is back to giving me a lot to think about. Maybe a thunderbolt will strike. LOL!
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Post by Loendal on Sept 18, 2009 1:06:56 GMT -5
Oh yes, I remember Kalyce. Can't say as I recall ALOT of interaction (Most of O'Suilebhain seemed to vanish as time went on) but I remember the nick. For some reason the color green keeps coming to mind... Not sure why. DAOC did fine with a special rule enforcement on their Roleplay server, but then they simply stopped enforcing and ignored the pleas. It took forever to get Orc Pawn renamed and there were several others as time went on that never got the fix they deserved. I think Mythic just stopped caring about us because we were in the minority. That's one of the key problems too. Any company that is created is created with the intention of making a profit. If there are 100 people paying you $10 a month for your product and only 10 of that 100 are concerned about a special ruleset, you will focus on maintaining the other $900 / month rather then worry that you might lose the $100 / month from the minority. If you spend alot of time and resources on appeasing that group of 10 people, and disregard the other 90, the 90 will start to get grumpy. As powergamers are (in my experience) much more ready to jump ship and abandon a company than roleplayers, who as it has been said, invest time and energy into their environment, it's a tricky situation. I've had this conversation before... Check here: www.neuhnee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14&sid=ac36e080d818c7eb9ef7f9cb53b89c23 |
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Post by sinaedh on Sept 24, 2009 7:16:21 GMT -5
That's one of the key problems too. Any company that is created is created with the intention of making a profit. If there are 100 people paying you $10 a month for your product and only 10 of that 100 are concerned about a special ruleset, you will focus on maintaining the other $900 / month rather then worry that you might lose the $100 / month from the minority. If you spend alot of time and resources on appeasing that group of 10 people, and disregard the other 90, the 90 will start to get grumpy. As powergamers are (in my experience) much more ready to jump ship and abandon a company than roleplayers, who as it has been said, invest time and energy into their environment, it's a tricky situation. Agreed 100% with this analysis. I'm no bean counter, but I imagine it must be difficult to balance the quick money now with powergamers (who will badmouth and leave in 1-2 years) with the potentially fewer numbers of roleplayers who might linger for 9 years(or more). |
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